Friday, January 11, 2013

Holy War Changes and Strategies

I'm sure people are wondering how the addition of Position Skills and Skill Chains effect Holy Wars and the strategies players use. Before I move to them I would like to point out the other important changes. I'm not going to discuss all of them nor all their facets, just the pertinent ones.

1) Changes to Holy War Points Received - High minimum points from lower level players, higher minimum points when attacking users with lower DEF PWR.

This change is directly used to combat the lockout strategy since even at lowest DEF PWR they will pay more points. The strategy itself will still be viable since the increase will probably be slight.

2) Full-Force Attacks - Players can use up to 3HP to do up to 3HP worth of damage and gain 3HP worth of points in a single attack.

This ability is going to cause some shit to go down. Rage of Bahamut introduces and automatic weapon. I can attack 3x per HP, and I can burn 3HP isntantly? That's 9 attacks per click. I imagine we will see quite a few last minute power explosions when coupled with the bonus from the Skill Chains and Order Leader Skill.

Skill Chains:

I will address this change first because it is extremely simple and should happen naturally in most cases. Players just need to keep attacking until the skill chain is capped. While the bonus is active you gain 10% ATK, and when the number increases you can attain up to 50% bonus. This makes it more important than ever for a lot of players to attack constantly and remain active. It would be awful to lose a chain bonus.

I do have a thought on this since it doesn't mention whether or not attacking the castle or a wall will gain the bonus nor does it mention the amount of attack required. I think it might be possible to gain a high chain early on by simply attacking the castle with a low power deck. This is a theory though since we have yet to see how it implements.

Position Skills: 
Some things to note on position skills are that skills of the same type cannot be active simultaneously skills require SP to use, skills have cooldowns based on the power of the skills.

Order Leader: Shingeki
By far the best skill, the Order leader bonus can be activated when a player gains 1000 SP and will last a full 10 minutes. The cooldown of the skill is 5 minutes. This bonus increases players ATK by 20-25% and the points received by 50-60%. 

Vice Leader: Braveheart
This skill is a baby version of Shingeki and cannot be active at the same time. It costs 500 SP and will last 5 minutes. The skills effect increases ATK and DEF by 10-15% and the points received by 20-25%.

Attack Leader: Warcry
This skill will decrease an opponents defense for a SINGLE ATTACK by 30-45%. It costs 60 SP and should be used ONLY WHEN THE ENEMY DEFENSE LEADER ACTIVATES PHALANX.

Defense Leader: Phalanx
This using this skill properly will be able to make or break orders. It will increase the defense leaders defense by 30-40% and when activated only the DEF leader can be attacked until he is either defeated or 6 minutes wears off. It costs 300 SP. Obviously Attack Leader's Warcry negates the bonus, making attack leader presence mandatory. 

Support Leader: Boost
It's an HP. Should be saved for attack leader or defense leaders. It increases the ATK/DEF of a member by 300-350 ATK/DEF PWR. The cooldown ranges from 3 minutes to 100 seconds and consumes 50 SP.

Support Leader: Magic Shield
This is the second skill available to support leaders increasing DEF. I...do not get this skill. The way its phrases makes it simply appear pointless no matter what. 

Regular Members: Yell
This skill is why you'll want a lot of members on simultaneously. It appears to have no cooldown and increases the ATK and SP of a player by 10-30 ATK/SP.  SP consumed is 30 SP, but if you're not a leader you're not using it. 
 

Now lets talk strategy:
So, how do these skills effect strategy? Well, it all depends on how easy it is to generate SP and whether you want to win or you want to go for mammoth points. I assume most people want mammoth points.

The way I see it, early on players should be attacking to increase the chain as well as generate SP which they should be sending to the Order leader. Once the chain reaches maximum power, and the order leader uses Shingeki, the team should go to down burning through Full Force attacks to maximize the point boosts of the chain as well as Shingeki. Once this is complete, players tone down, send SP to the order leader as they generate it by keeping the chain going until they can repeat the process.

Now, some players may be thinking...doesn't it makes sense to have two defense leaders alternating Phalanx the entire match? Absolutely...depending on how much SP we generate per attack that we can send to them. Each Phalanx costs 300 SP for 6 minutes. This means an order could have 18 minutes of defense in exchange for the same amount of SP that would earn 10 minutes of offense for the order leader. I DO NOT RECOMMEND PUSHING DEFENSE. The primary reason is because Phalanx ends when the defender is defeated. This means you could potentially spend 300 SP for one minute of defense and mitigating no points from the enemy. Instead, you could save that to eventually gain 10 minutes of bonus points and damage. 

So, if you shouldn't alternate Phalanx, how should you use it? I recommend using it on the home stretch, the last 6 minutes of the match to protect your lead or give you time to gain one.

I think with skill chains, full force attacks, and shingeki, players will be able to accumulate very large numbers of points very quickly. Because of that, 6 minutes of defense that an attack leader can break by combining his teams shingeki, morale boost, and warcry...doesn't seem like a good value. 

But hey, I'm an offense guy.




76 comments:

  1. order leader's shingeki only raises atk.

    Being the def leader I wish they would give more skills that raise defense.

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    1. also the braveheart and the shingeki(vice) skills are different. braveheart doesn't let the other order use full force attacks and lasts 5 minutes (good for the last 5 minutes)

      shingeki(vice) uses the sp of the order leader (i guess when the leader is not playing) and will always be lvl 1.

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    2. I don't see where it says braveheart doesn't let the other order use full force attacks.

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    3. if you go into rules, then details of other rules in the vice leader's brave heart says this:

      While active, the opponent Order can't use Full-force Attacks.

      its pretty neat

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  2. I think it is important to realise that a def leader with his 6 minute phalanx skill can break a chain.

    The magic shield adds def points to the deff leads max i think, so if he had 300 def pwr, he has got 330 after activating. Seems nice for people who see their inactive def leads deff points get smacked to 0, but there wont be any inactive def leads, because they have to activate their skill.
    Magic shield is pretty useless so yeah.

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    1. In theory yes. But if a chain can be added by successfully attacking the core it does no good. I don't see anything where it says attacking the core won't add to chains.

      It's still no good compared to Boost.

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    2. I did see in the rules mentioned that an order member has to *win* a fight within five minutes of the last fight in order to add to the chain. From that I would assume that attacking the wall/castle doesn't count and if an Order can't break another order's Phalanx (6 minute effect), the chain resets to zero. I can't say for sure, but it sounds like just attacking something/someone doesn't add to the chain.

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    3. Yeah I know, I just don't know if attacking the castle is a victory. You get points for it so it...and you don't get points for losing...so...

      It will be interesting to see if it counts.

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    4. In the rules section of chains you can find that attacking the wall/castle will not add up the chain. It also says that there wont be any HW points for succesfully attacking the wall/castle.

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  3. Only the Vice-Leader's skill affects DEF; The Order Leader's does not.

    It *should* have been made to affect DEF, along with the chain bonus. Then Phalanx could be a little more valuable. An order could use it to try and stop their opponent's chain, since Phalanx lasts 6 minutes and the chain dies if no member wins a battle within five minutes.

    I could imagine an order using Phalanx with Braveheart to try and stop their opponent's chain, but the other order can always counter war cry, Jingeki, and their current chain.

    Also, found this in the notes section about mixing Phalanx with Magic Shield:

    If an opponent of ATK power (50 + (DEF Power of your DEF leader with the most DEF Power)/10) attacks you, your DEF power won't decrease

    Trying to figure this one out.

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    1. Yeah, I corrected the defense thing. I have no idea with magic shield. I just don't get why somebody would opt to charge 30 defense pwr instead of boost which would recharge 300 pwr.

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    2. Yeah, I don't see any purpose to this skill. I'm a Def lead currently and I would prefer my DEF recharged over an extra 30-50 points. Saves HP.

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    3. I have a theory on what Magic Shield might do when mixed with Phalanx. It could be a boost to the 50 point rule. So as DEF Leader, if my DEF power is 350, then 50 + (350/10) = 85. An attacker would have to use a deck of 85 ATK power to lower my DEF by its 10%. It's listed in the notes section with a note under it (*Max. 119).

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    4. GB, this is what I think as well. so in the worst case scenario you need 119 ATK Power to decrease DEF leaders DEF Power by ten.

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  4. Not super related, but I offered in my ALT's order to 4-6 evo cards for people for 3 cw 500k rupies and 5 HP. I thought that was a pretty good deal really. I mean I do it a lot myself just for the flip effect I described in another comment. I mean the cw rupies are basically cost for me, and the HP is not unreasonable, at least I don't think. For some reason though no one even brings it up. It's frustrating because I joined the order because it was supposed to be for cw events only really, but then they blasted out like 31 wins in the last HW. I don't do anything for them during HW because I'm a 700,10,10 account. I'm just surprised. My main order takes me up on it all the time.

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    1. Damn. That's a low price. The people probably don't do it thought because it does require giving you four cards.

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    2. What's your in game name? I'd take you up on that!

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  5. A couple things

    1st i think magic shield is.missing a %, makes no sense othewise

    2nd i found this quote " You can earn a maximum of 500 Holy War Points from fighting the same opponent during a single Holy War. (If Holy War Skills activate that raise your Holy War Points, the max Holy War Points you can gain battle will vary depending on those Skills)." Under rules-details of other rules-holy war battles. Does this mean i max out my single opponent hw points in 2 attks?

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    1. Also the def lead does not start the hw protecting the order.

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    2. The point cap has always been there. It's referring to a single attack. So a player can only give a max of 500pts in a single attack.

      So, if you attack the same opponent 100x the max points you could get from it would be 50000. Hope that clears it up. But when using full-force the cap is removed, allowing people to gain more.

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    3. It says you can get a maximum of 500 HW points from fighting the same opponent during a single HW!!! (this is a big change!!) Could increase with skills. When they are used the max. points will be 1.100, but if you use full-force attack it could even be more, but it does not state how much more.

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    4. This is not a change. This has always been written in the rules, and always been a typo saying single HW when it means to say single battle.

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  6. Shouldn't that read per attk then instead of per holy war. I just figured it was a typeo so glad to hear that it has been in place before. (especially because they are missing a word between gain and battle)

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  7. Not pushing defense is a bold statement. It's the classical setting of having just 1 or 2 def leaders won't work for phalanx. The new way of thinking is that orders now need to have to invest in recruiting def leaders. Think of a brick wall of 5 def leaders. When one def leader activates its skill, the other def leaders need to build up their sp by attack. And if a def leader gets beaten, the next def leader should be up. This theory holds only if the def decks are really strong.. Mean time the atk of your order gain enuf points and breaks opponents morale. I think the demand for strong def leaders will increase in time. The idea of having just 1 or 2 top def leader won't hold in the new setting. I personally am looking forward to this.

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    1. It all depends on the speed at which you can generate SP. Keep in mind, the speed at which you can generate HW points is absolutely insane now if your order leaders shingeki, the chain, and full-force attacks. Full force alone will now allow me to generate easly 70,000 points in 10 minutes, not counting bonuses. Lets add the chain bonus and shingeki's we're up to 140,000 points in 10 minutes.

      Now, lets say you decide to have 5 defenders. You need to have five hardcore players willing to screw their ability to generate individual points to have enough defense points. What the last HW showed us is if you are a defense leader you should accept that you will NEVER get the best rewards.

      I highly doubt defense will be pushed and personally expect a lot more glass cannon orders with these changes.

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  8. I don't like this at all. I can't spend 2 or 3 days staring at my phone screen. This new system makes it more vital for every order member to be online to do well and I just can't do it. And also holy wars used to be relatively simple, you race your opponent to gain more honor points, now these skills and such are just turning the whole idea of holy wars upside down, not only will you have to stay active for a whole hour to stop any comebacks but if your order leader and vice leaders aren't online then you're in serious trouble.
    As a side note Master Archers skill 10 are now more expensive than Claymore Maids skill 10....

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    1. I absolutely agree. I usually take down tge def leader and give the sign for a go on tge forum. Than I used to be able to check 3-4 times during a Holy War and if necessary I would attack 5-10 times. Now I have to be alert at least every 10 minutes and probably sooner to see if the chain is still going. I understand these changes, like other changes recently they are probably meant to promote diversity. It hits the high level orders with only 1 active high level player pretty hard. No chains with only 1 player. Doesn't matter if that player is top 100 or not.

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  9. Something is odd in the rules about Chain Bonuses. If you tap the "What are chains" banner, one of the first things you read is: During a Holy War, if members of your Order win 2 battles within 10 minutes of each other, your Chain Number will increase! But further on it states: However, if nobody increases your Chain Number within 5 minutes, it will reset. Also in the "Other Changes" section the 5 minute rule is mentioned again. So I guess it's five minutes? Damn. Fortunately we have a pretty active order.

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    1. I believe it's just a difference between starting a chain vs losing the chain. 2 battles in 10 minutes will start the bonus but once it starts you need to attack once every 5 minutes.

      When my order pushes, we're attacking every second, so it's not a big deal to build or keep a chain. If a defense leader pops up, our attack leaders will already have morale boost and annihilate them.

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    2. Wouldnt the def lead and shingeki cancel each other out? Im currently a def leader for my order and was annoyed at first with the changes in def. However, i feel like these new rules and skills are promoting diversity and teamwork in an active order. As def leader it seems i'm always on anyway... but kinda bummed that I can't protect some of the lower leveled players that either just joined or arent 100% ready yet. :/ IGN: victorrlopez3

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    3. Attack leader gets a 45% defense reduction for a single attack vs Def leaders 40% boost for 6 minutes. Couple this with moral boost and shingeki, I don't see a huge reason where a defense leader should be up for more than 30 seconds after using Phalanx.

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    4. I can see that. You think this will hurt the game in the long run? i hope they're just trying this out... ultimately i feel like they want us to buy HP and burn it =/

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    5. I think they're trying to make the wars more dynamic. Currently the wars purely are, who can spend more HP. I think they're trying to add strategy to make it feel less like it's an HP measuring contest.

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  10. If I'm reading these new rules correctly, the Phalanx skill basically negates the old rule where only one Def Leader had to be beaten to be able to attack every member. Effectively defence is reactivated with the Phalanx skill. Can be nice of you have two very strong Def Leader and the first gets beaten after a hundred attacks because he's not online to recharge his Def Pwr. Than the second one can activate the Phalanx skill if he has enough SP.

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    1. Yes, theoretically they could alternate. The problem though is its tough to predict how easy it will be until we know how quickly SP is generated.

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  11. for an order with more than 1 DL, when 1 DL activates phalanx, only he can be attacked or all DLs can be attacked?

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  12. Now that we can no longer "ride" the defense leader, and anyone can be attacked, would it be a good idea for everyone, particularly those in leader positions, to raise DEF PWR so they can take a few more hits? I'm currently an attack leader, and my defense falls apart quite quickly from a few consecutive hits. Considering that I'm probably the biggest target next to the order leader, I'm debating whether I should push DEF PWR to at least, say, 200 or so. Perhaps regular members would still be alright with less. What are your thoughts?

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    1. Meh. I'm not willing to do that. Lets be honest, even with 200 defense, most of the people on the other team will be able to knock you out if you're evenly matched.

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    2. Think I should leave that at 150 and just keep pumping attack then? I can currently attack 3 times per HP, and it will be another couple of months before I can reach 4.

      I'm occasionally dipping below minimum even from random attacks, and it worries me. I was wondering if higher defense would at least discourage people from targeting me. In past wars, we didn't have a choice but to go for the defense leader. I'd imagine most people would aim for easier-looking opponents rather than take a chance and potentially waste some HP. While it's true that their attacks would go through eventually, wouldn't you want to make it harder for them, and at least prevent the weaker ones from chipping you down?

      Could we also expect prices of defensive cards to rise now that people can't always hide behind a defense leader?

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    3. To be honest, the only time I ever look at the DEF PWR of my opponent is PvP on the leaderboard. Generally, because low DEF PWR usually indicates a weak defense (coupled with high honor may indicate an attack deck defending). During Holy War, I will farm the same leader over and over. If I lose or I feel that their defense is a bit much on the first attack, I'll just move on to the next leader. Is it a waste of an attack if I lose? Yes. But, even low DEF PWR doesn't mean an easy win. So, I will attack once to see your deck.

      I don't think there will be any rise in defensive cards. The game isn't very balanced for attack/defense. Everything Cygames does seems to favor defense. You don't get anything extra in raid events for your defense. Attack cards seem to outnumber and outclass defense cards. Even this new Holy War system favors attack. 25% (Jingeki) + 10% (Chain) + 45% (Warcry) versus 15% (Braveheart) + 40% (Phalanx) = the 30% morale boost from the old system. Except, now the whole order gets it at once and it lasts for at least ten minutes. I can't imagine many DEF leaders able to stand long against an attacker using 30% morale, 45% if there's no Braveheart.

      If they wanted to balance this, they could have had the chain give 10% to DEF and have Braveheart boost to DEF what Jingeki boosts to attack.

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    4. gb, you raised a good point. I myself would also attack players once just to take a peek at their cards. In addition to finding out a rough estimate of their total defense, you would also be able to identify the defense power cost of the deck.

      Let's expand the scenario a bit, and assume that every worthwhile target you've scouted on the opposing order has strong defense decks you cannot consistently beat. With few or no alternatives, your next consideration would be how many hits it would take to break one of their decks, yes?

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    5. My next consideration would be which one is inactive. Then, I'll hit them down to one card, whip out my single point booster deck (25 power), and farm them until they're locked out. I'll repeat this until the Order Leader's lock has been reset since he or she would be giving out 20% more points than most other members.

      You could put more points in defense, but if your entire order isn't doing the same, I don't see any benefit to it. And, if they did, the only benefit I could see is that it would take a few more hits to knock them down a card. This also assumes they have strong defense decks as well.

      A well organized and communicative order is going to identify the "weak links" in their opponents and communicate that among their ordermates quickly.

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    6. Ah, yes. Defensively, the order is indeed only as strong as its weakest link.

      If you don't mind my asking, how many points do you have in defense? Has it been okay so far?

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    7. I'm probably a bad example, or an extreme one, as I have 325 points in defense. But, I'm DEF leader for my order.

      The Good:
      Hitting the higher parts of the PvP leaderboard without using HP. Just expending my ATK throughout the day can get me into the 900 - 1000 range. From there, the Honor I get from successful defenses can get me higher - including breaking the top 100. But, you don't need 300+ defense points as I don't get hit often enough to justify it. You just need enough to block 3 - 4 hits.

      Defending treasures during events. Here you do need a high DEF stat, because I have gotten hit often enough. Even at 300+, I've been knocked down to my backup deck and my treasures taken when not online. I'm also man realm, so I can farm the red and blues. But, Cygames took this away.

      Admiration form your ordermates. My order has ridden my defense deck through many battles in previous wars. I can count the number of times an order broke through on one hand (Just note, I'm holding Paladin, Lance x2, Longi x2 and my order has ranked above 1K the past few wars. At higher levels of play, I'd be lucky to stand five minutes let alone the whole battle). New rules have changed this now.

      I can hold up better against Ragnarok in Holy War. But, I have not seen many orders target actives and I still wouldn't need 300+ points if I'm active.

      I'm "recruiter friendly." I get tons of invites to other orders looking for DEF leads. Apparently, we're in short supply. I've seen quite a few orders with DEF leads having less than 200 points in defense. And, some order leaders have tried to bribe me with HP to join, saying they would supply me with HP in Holy War. One even offered to pay me real money. Of course, I don't know if any of them would have went through with it.

      The Bad:
      My ATK is low; I'm lucky to hit twice.
      Lower honor points on attack, since I think ATK is a factor in the calculations.
      A harder time in raid events. I'd have to blow more HP than others for the same rank.
      Lower Holy War points. Again, I'd have to blow more HP for the same rank.
      During Holy War, I had to frequently check my phone and see if I needed to replenish by DEF PWR. Sometimes, I was so busy, I had to pop an HP without even being able to attack back. Though, the new rules should change this.

      Putting some points into defense is fine, but I think the more you put in defense and take away from attack, the more you cripple yourself in ranking well in events.

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  13. These rules suck. I dont think we gonna fight in the beginning. Just See what happens and wait untill others burned hp. Maybe in that way we survive

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    1. Pfft, watching people play has never been a substitute for trying to do it yourself.

      The rules are nice in that they are dynamic and change the game a bit from a pure, who has the most HP contest. The rules suck because one of the great parts about rage vs MMOs is you don't have to be on for 3 hours straight every day and this kind of changes that.

      It's a give an take.

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  14. Kel might have been on to something... Prices of DEF cards have gone up roughly 2-5 HP across the board. Hmmmmmm..... I do think the rule changes make it necessary for each player in your order to have a "respectable" defense, but like it's been pointed out, you aren't going to stop anybody with a full FF high rare deck if those skills are activated. I'm not overly impressed with the rule changes but I'm willing to see how this goes. Only thing that burns me is that the DEF leader doesn't need to fall before anyone else can be attacked. It's not even that this is a bad rule, it's just a bad change. How do you change without warning? We had literally just chipped in and bought our DEF leader each a Qilin, because our strategy was patience and easy wins first 3 days. That is GONE now, and I'm 300 HP lighter :( Thankfully the DEF leader is a good friend of mine... What's dumb now is an Ad Hoc order with a bunch of bad kids with rare cards can literally HP until they're blue in the face and win, the cards are almost irrelevant when the boost is so high. Ugh...

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    1. Adhoc kids aren't going to blow HP until theyre blue in the face, winning still gives a large boost to points won and ad hocs are still going to be smashed by anyone with coordinated skill usage. If those kids had HP to burn they'd have joined any order that had buildings.

      I don't play at the top end and there are plenty of people in guild who don't like burning HP when its the main currency of the game, so once they run out of PHP they stop participating, and when that happens the holy wars become much less interesting to them and to the guild as requests for help are met with silence. But with the addition of charge (20 min refill your attack bar) and these skills it will increase our communication and participation, which I see as a huge boon to my personal enjoyment as well as my order's enjoyment. We probably won't do better than 1500 order wise but I think well enjoy this holy war more than any other before.

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  15. First I thought that some of these rules (at the beginning of a Holy War, the DEF Leader is not the only card which can be attacked unless he uses Phalanx) were meant to promote the use of multiple DEF Leaders, who alternate on using Phalanx. But after reading above comments I've come to the conclusion that it's just another Mobage strategy to get us to burn (and buy) more hp. Think of it, before this if you drew an order with a really powerful DEF Leader, that couldn't be beaten, most players would skip that Holy War and hope for better luck next time. Now, even when he's not sleeping, a DEF Leader can only hold defence for 6 minutes. Then the 5 minute cool down happens and players can just attack (unless of course another D Lead activates Phalanx, but he may be easier to beat) and will attack Full force and burning hp's fast to make the most of that 5 minute window.

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  16. The thing I'm thinking is that the rewards are equally disproportionate to the expenditures once again. Unless they up the actual HP payout for ranking, which they won't. You just have to watch spending in the 100HP range may only net you 50 HP worth of swag.

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  17. Lucarda, you say that this is no longer about who has the most HP to burn, but I think it's the opposite. With these full-force attacks, you can burn 3 hp in one attack... I think it becomes even more about who can spend the most hp the fastest.
    Also I personally think this is the beginning of the end for Def leaders. Sucks for those who put in a lot of effort to build strong def deck and spent attribute pts on defense, only to see the rules change overnight.
    If these rules remain, I will have to shift my focus more to atk rather than def, since def is now at such a disadvantage.

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  18. It's sad to me to think that there are people willing to spend more HP than they'll likely yield from rewards. Unless the reward structure is changed dramatically I don't see the justification for dropping a lot of HP on this or any event.

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    1. Amen!

      If only other people came to their senses and did the same, it might cause Mobage to stand back an re-evaluate the reward structure now that there are so many active, and competitive players.

      But since idiots will continue to spend 300HP for 100HP worth of rewards we keep getting poor payout structures.

      Is it all a pride thing? Or do people envision themselves pulling SR/SSR's from the few LCP's they get at mid level ranks?

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    2. I have no idea...but my guess is the people in those top few ranks that get the good prizes are people with a lot of feeder accounts at the very least and quite possibly just out and out cheating.

      It's absurd that before my order even had our first war finished early early this morning that there was a player over 3,000,000 points earned.

      There's really no need to even spend one HP in this because there are no rewards worth it for what it would take to earn them. Same with the quest events and same with the daily honor points. The people winning these things are spending FAR more than they're getting in return.

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  19. I think I have misread the cooldown time for defense leader. It states that it is 5 minutes after use, not after skill wears off (like order leader skill). Which means 1 def leader is enough to cover the order, provided he has enough SP and strong enough to withstand all attacks.

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  20. Yeah bottom line, unless you're in the top 500 individual players, the event payout isn't worth the effort. Heck, even then it may not be worth it. Why keep dropping 100's of HP when you just wait for the bazaar to be flooded with the card you want at a fraction of what you would have spent trying to get that ranking? Same thing with every one of the last few events.

    The bazaar has allowed a mid level player like me to get better cards than I ever would have via trading alone. But at the same time, it combine with all the recent rule changes and card additions has straight broken the game's effort to reward structure.

    Oh well, guess I'll just focus more on Marvel until they figure out a way to ruin that game too.

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    1. I agree. Mobage really needs to find a better way to deal with rewards to get people more excited about events and Holy Wars.

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  21. Well, this just became a hp spending game. Five guys just got more than 100k points against our order. Must have spent a ton of hp's. This is becoming less fun very quick. Especially with this reward system. Totally off balance and in favor of the higher ranks. A lot of our order are thinking about quiting.

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    1. There are two players over 100,000,000 HW Points earned just so far today.
      The top 10 are all over 24,000,000.

      The top 100 is cutting off at over 2.8 Million.

      Let's just do some math. I hit reasonably hard with a solid deck. I get a little less than 6k per 3XHP burst. Or no more than 500 per attack.

      So to get these types of numbers (lets just say top 100 and keep in mind that top 2 is 40Xs this number) I'd need to burn 1400HP using the burst or hit 5600 times at 3X per HP would be 1867HP.

      So just for top 100 EARLY in day 1 I'd need to have spent somewhere between 1400 and 1900 HP.

      Remember Top 1 or 2 is FORTY TIMES that number.

      It's insane.

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  22. I'm willing to wager there's a glitch.

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    1. Any thoughts on what the glitch is? Because that is so ridiculous.

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    2. None. Might not even be a glitch. I know that I can easily accumulate 100k in about 5 minutes. I just don't understand why they would spend so much unless it was all in Personal HP somehow.

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    3. do you know how they do the match making by chance?

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    4. It's based on point totals. It tries to match orders of similar points/rank but sometimes will end up doing a real mismatch if enough competitors aren't available at that time.

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  23. So it's possible to emulate (android) phones on the pc. Maybe these guys also found a way to collect all the personal hp's from their feeder accounts? That could explain the massive amount of hp's people are using.

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    1. Technically there are reward tiers for referrals. I think once an account reaches level 30 or 40 the person who referred gets 5 personal HP.

      But that's really risky. Linking 1000 accounts to your main is just...dumb.

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  24. I pulled Raphaela today an SSR worth today about 90 HP I think that will normalize when suckers like me stop pulling them from these silver coin packs. My question is this: I'm currently in for about 30 HP, and I'm around 15K in event rank. Based on what it will take to get a significant reward I'm pretty sure I should just cut it off now. I mean I could blow another 200 and sell that card for cheap right now and try to crack the top 5K maybe. I mean I'm just a regular guy I can imagine the time or effort it would take to 1.) Accumulate all that HP, or 2.) to spend all that HP. These people put in 20 hours yesterday-no doubt.

    So let me know if you think its worth continuing. For the record I think my order cant help but get 20 wins and wont possibly get 30.

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  25. So I Spent some time thinking this through. I think it would be legitimately possible to get achieve the following scenario.

    High tier player with 2500 HP banked starts Holy war with tons of high level fellows with maybe less HP or tons of Alts loaded up with HP. The key is to get all the HP out of the ALTs without detection. Lets starts with accumulation 15 million points.

    To Achieve that I figure with an SSR Deck you could hit for 2.5K point per HP. If any of you have a deck like that please validate this claim. Assuming 2.5K per HP 15 Million comes out to 6000HP. Now how would the account that started with 2500 HP get up to 6000 so quickly. Again the key is getting that banked HP out of the Alts.

    To do so you would obviously need a network because you max fellows at 50 or something like that. You earn those little Silver Bell Packs at a rate of about 1 per HP. This means if you spend 2500 HP you earn about 2500 Silver Card Packs. The cards just from that are probably valued in the 2 K range on the Bazaar, but you're not selling them on the Bazaar your trading them to your alts so you could inflate it a little without notice. Keep in mind the high level orders are distributing the bells as often as possible to there order, I know this is 1 per day but still.

    So then you keep on doing this not really depleting your actual HP value. At the end of the event you've not really spent any HP and then you cash in for 2 Zues and about 1K hp worth of other ancillary cards. I think you could literally spend ad infinitum and always get your payout.

    The only difficulty remaining is the time it would take to set up, and manage a setup like that. I mean you can only carry 80 cards at a time then all the trading and distribution time... It would take a team of people to run one account like that.

    As far as actual HPs gained or lost though I think in the end you net. It's just a theory, a theory I will never test mind you, but a theory. If you think of it as a business you'd be talking about a 3k investment to make maybe $300 return. Not a bad investment excepting the hundreds of hours they put in it. In hundreds of hours I make more than $300.

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    1. I see. That's kind of like the "double the loss" strategy with roulette. You bet on red. Starting bet is 100 dollars/coins/whatever. You lose. Now you bet 200. Again on red. You lose again. Now you bet 400. And than you win. So you've lost 300 and gained 400. A total gain of 100. The same as if you would've won the first bet. The problem with these strategies is that you've gotta be able to go a long way before it pays out. You could be unlucky for 10 times in a row. The same goes for the silver coin strategy you've described. Especially with large numbers it's all about odds. Only with a high starting amount you would be guaranteed to get enough SSR's to make it worthwhile.

      Problem is though. How can anyone get 2500hp to start with? So only those players get to win some extra hp by selling silver coin cards on the Bazaar. Other players with less hp are pretty much doomed. With 30hp you would be lucky to get one high rare from the silver coin packs... Unless your the exception that is extremely lucky to get a Raphaela...

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  26. Just sharing some stats. In an order around rank 1,500.
    I've spent around 100 hp, got around 300 silver coins, from gifting and bonus from getting 1st in order.
    Pulled a Michael, dark general, demonic knight, and 2 guineveres. I feel I can prob net even by maxing the cards and selling.
    However now it seems all that's left to get is raphalla, and the chances aren't that great...does slowing down seem like a good idea?

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  27. Alucard, random question but semi-related to the holy war - I got a rafaela in a silver coin pack but have no need of it - do you think the 75 hp it's going for now is the peak or should I wait it out and sell it later?

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    1. Sell it later. People are selling them cheap to gain last minute HP.

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    2. Lucarda is it better to have 3 cards holy war booster during Full Force ATK? IE 3 Chiron, Enkidu, White Alice?

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  28. lucarda, quick question.
    Regarding def decks for the hw.
    Would it be wise for members of the orders drop their defense deck to a mere one card? Example, I have a couple of members on my order whose def isnt the greatest so what they do is they setup a defense deck consisting of only 1 card. Now they have defense points at around 100-150. I've heard mixed answers to this question. When another order goes to attack that member, would they be getting the maxed hw points possible or is the points calculated depending on the defense deck?

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    1. Rage penalizes single card defense. Anybody I attack only using 1 card I get full point value from in every attack.

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